I think that as you two , Phillip, and David, continue dialogue together and listen to one another, you will both find you are saying the same thing in different words. I agree with both of you. I have long been a traditional Catholic Christian. I am 75. I have had a personal relationship with Jesus, the Christ, since my teens. I have read the Bible daily since my teens. I have attened daily Mass as often as possible, and prayed daily at least 3 times a day since my teens. Yet, until I openly by my free will embraced the Holy Spirit and was baptized in the Spirit, my faith had not become alive. My personal intimate love for and hope in and my total surrender to Our Lord was birthed in me by the coming of the Holy Spirit upon me. I knew and believed before that in baptism and confirmation , it takes both, I have been filled with the Holy Spirit. However, I passively received. When I actively embraced and surrendered to the Holy Spirit, I came alive, because thte Holy Spirit was now completely free to take possession of me. I think this is what David is saying. Catholics are not taught to actively with both heart and mind to open up and let the Spirit in. We believe the sacraments place the Spirit within us, and they do. But we must openly reach out and welcome the Holy Spirit in. In other words we can't be passive. We have a part to play too.
I read the Universal Christ a number of years ago. At the time it was comforting. It acted like an airplane airbag- sustained me until I could understand the fuller truth. Now I can see the problems with what is described in much of the book, but if it sustains others until they can breathe a fuller truth, perhaps it has its value.
Christ presently functions as our High Priest intercessor at the right hand of the Father. When the people wanted to make Him king while He was on this earth, He refused it (cf. John 6:15). Even after His resurrection, he told His apostles that the time of His restoration of the kingdom to Israel was not for them to know (cf. Acts 1:6-7). This tells me that there is going to be a future fulfillment of Christ as King on this earth that has not happened yet.
Sounds like premillennialism. Catholics are generally amillenial, so I’m going to have to push back on your comment here.
**I mention in the above article that I teach my Catechism class: If you want to know Jesus you need to know His story as the fulfillment of the stories of Salvation History**
The Letter to the Hebrews explains how Jesus is a priest--and this key. Jesus is not priest in the order of Aaron, the Jews would have known the claim to Jesus as Messiah through the House of David, the anointed.
Genesis 14:18 Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought out bread and wine. He was a priest of God Most High.
Psalms 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not waver:“You are a priest forever in the manner of Melchizedek.”
Hebrews 5:6 just as he says in another place:“You are a priest foreveraccording to the order of Melchizedek.”
Hebrews 7:17 For it is testified:“You are a priest foreveraccording to the order of Melchizedek.”
Furthermore, want to understand Jesus as King? It has become trending among modern theologians to claim that “the messianic secret” by Jesus, Jesus telling the disciples not to tell anyone who He is, is actually a claim that he never claims to be messiah!!!
Again, *You must understand* those who came before Him. Jesus is falls into the tradition of the anointing of Israel’s kings in secret: Saul, David, and Solomon each one anointed as King in secret.
Saul anointed in secret from the Philistines.
David anointed in secret from Saul.
Solomon anointed in secret from his brothers--and then announced Solomon was king.
There were early fathers of the Church such as Justin Martyr and Irenaeus who were premillennialists. I agree that Jesus cannot be a Levitical High Priest because He is of the tribe of Judah. His High Priesthood is by an oath and not by ancestry (cf. Hebrews 7:11-28).
The way to true holiness and oneness with Christ is through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit,or Holy Ghost; Acts 2:38.Most traditional Catholics aren't taught this,but as scripture states in in Joel 2:28,that in the last days,"My Spirit(God's) shall be poured out on all flesh!"This includes all Catholics who have faith and believe in the Word!
Why denote “traditional” Catholics? I’m curious to whom do you refer?
And quite frankly, with Joel 2 being quoted so clearly in the beginning of the Acts of the Apostles, especially surrounding Pentecost, I’d reject such a statement against traditional Catholics. Its too obvious in the Acts text to make such a generalized statement.
Does the Holy Spirit dwell in the baptized? Sure. Does this mean we are now incarnated God? No. Does this mean Catholics are saved by just faith? No. There is a nuance here at play. By living a life of holiness, there is what is known in the East as theosis--but this is a likeness to or union of creature with Creator. It is *not* creature becoming creator.
The truth is stated in Sacred Scripture time and time again. Many will say, “Lord, Lord...”And He will say “I do not know you.”
So, we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
I think that as you two , Phillip, and David, continue dialogue together and listen to one another, you will both find you are saying the same thing in different words. I agree with both of you. I have long been a traditional Catholic Christian. I am 75. I have had a personal relationship with Jesus, the Christ, since my teens. I have read the Bible daily since my teens. I have attened daily Mass as often as possible, and prayed daily at least 3 times a day since my teens. Yet, until I openly by my free will embraced the Holy Spirit and was baptized in the Spirit, my faith had not become alive. My personal intimate love for and hope in and my total surrender to Our Lord was birthed in me by the coming of the Holy Spirit upon me. I knew and believed before that in baptism and confirmation , it takes both, I have been filled with the Holy Spirit. However, I passively received. When I actively embraced and surrendered to the Holy Spirit, I came alive, because thte Holy Spirit was now completely free to take possession of me. I think this is what David is saying. Catholics are not taught to actively with both heart and mind to open up and let the Spirit in. We believe the sacraments place the Spirit within us, and they do. But we must openly reach out and welcome the Holy Spirit in. In other words we can't be passive. We have a part to play too.
As you have said,brother!
David, are you replying to me or Patty here? I just don’t want to leave you hanging here.
I read the Universal Christ a number of years ago. At the time it was comforting. It acted like an airplane airbag- sustained me until I could understand the fuller truth. Now I can see the problems with what is described in much of the book, but if it sustains others until they can breathe a fuller truth, perhaps it has its value.
Christ presently functions as our High Priest intercessor at the right hand of the Father. When the people wanted to make Him king while He was on this earth, He refused it (cf. John 6:15). Even after His resurrection, he told His apostles that the time of His restoration of the kingdom to Israel was not for them to know (cf. Acts 1:6-7). This tells me that there is going to be a future fulfillment of Christ as King on this earth that has not happened yet.
Sounds like premillennialism. Catholics are generally amillenial, so I’m going to have to push back on your comment here.
**I mention in the above article that I teach my Catechism class: If you want to know Jesus you need to know His story as the fulfillment of the stories of Salvation History**
The Letter to the Hebrews explains how Jesus is a priest--and this key. Jesus is not priest in the order of Aaron, the Jews would have known the claim to Jesus as Messiah through the House of David, the anointed.
Genesis 14:18 Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought out bread and wine. He was a priest of God Most High.
Psalms 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not waver:“You are a priest forever in the manner of Melchizedek.”
Hebrews 5:6 just as he says in another place:“You are a priest foreveraccording to the order of Melchizedek.”
Hebrews 7:17 For it is testified:“You are a priest foreveraccording to the order of Melchizedek.”
Furthermore, want to understand Jesus as King? It has become trending among modern theologians to claim that “the messianic secret” by Jesus, Jesus telling the disciples not to tell anyone who He is, is actually a claim that he never claims to be messiah!!!
Again, *You must understand* those who came before Him. Jesus is falls into the tradition of the anointing of Israel’s kings in secret: Saul, David, and Solomon each one anointed as King in secret.
Saul anointed in secret from the Philistines.
David anointed in secret from Saul.
Solomon anointed in secret from his brothers--and then announced Solomon was king.
There were early fathers of the Church such as Justin Martyr and Irenaeus who were premillennialists. I agree that Jesus cannot be a Levitical High Priest because He is of the tribe of Judah. His High Priesthood is by an oath and not by ancestry (cf. Hebrews 7:11-28).
The way to true holiness and oneness with Christ is through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit,or Holy Ghost; Acts 2:38.Most traditional Catholics aren't taught this,but as scripture states in in Joel 2:28,that in the last days,"My Spirit(God's) shall be poured out on all flesh!"This includes all Catholics who have faith and believe in the Word!
Why denote “traditional” Catholics? I’m curious to whom do you refer?
And quite frankly, with Joel 2 being quoted so clearly in the beginning of the Acts of the Apostles, especially surrounding Pentecost, I’d reject such a statement against traditional Catholics. Its too obvious in the Acts text to make such a generalized statement.
Does the Holy Spirit dwell in the baptized? Sure. Does this mean we are now incarnated God? No. Does this mean Catholics are saved by just faith? No. There is a nuance here at play. By living a life of holiness, there is what is known in the East as theosis--but this is a likeness to or union of creature with Creator. It is *not* creature becoming creator.
The truth is stated in Sacred Scripture time and time again. Many will say, “Lord, Lord...”And He will say “I do not know you.”
So, we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling.