The Holy Spirit that Our Lord promised would contain His Spirit (cf. John 14:18). The incarnate Christ could only be imparted at Pentecost because He had not died and ascended at that point. I don’t see how any impartation of the Holy Spirit prior to Pentecost could have included the incarnate Christ. This is probably why there was no full salvation possible before Pentecost, because the results of the Redemption could only be realized by us when Christ is within us. Our profound interior life requires us to walk in the Spirit in order for us to benefit from the graces of the Spirit (cf. Galatians 5:16-25).
I am a cradle Catholic with K thru 16 Catholic schooling. I experienced my spirituality when I was 31 years old by following the instructions in Scripture. Because of this, I pay lots of attention to what is in Scripture.
Thank you! In response to your original post, could you explain what you mean that the Holy Spirit "contains His Spirit"? I think I understand the rest of your post; the necessity of Pentecost for salvation is one reason why the Church considers it to be the birth of the Church, since Christ is imparted through the power of the Holy Spirit by the Sacraments.
I believe that the Pentecost Holy Spirit contains the entire Godhead. The Spirit of Christ is presented as separate from the Spirit of God in Romans 8:9. Christ is now within us by His Spirit, and He contains the fullness of the Godhead in His human body (cf. Colossians 2:19). This is the best that I can do with the configuration of the Pentecost Holy Spirit.
Faith presupposes the sacraments (cf. Vatican II’s Sacrosanctum Concilium 59). The Holy Spirit was received by those in the household of Cornelius by faith before they were water baptized (cf. Acts 10:44-48; 15:8-9; 11:17). God overrides human intervention when humans get in His way.
We have to be very careful and precise with language, especially pertaining to the Trinity and the hypostatic union. As always, the Tradition and Magisterium of the Church can help clarify these doctrines. Lumen Gentium of Vatican II clarifies that, although all three persons of the Trinity are truly God, Pentecost specifically involved the coming of the Holy Spirit: “When the work which the Father gave the Son to do on earth was accomplished, the Holy Spirit was sent on the day of Pentecost in order that he might continually sanctify the Church.” The Spirit of Christ, according to the varied usages of Scriptural language, is the Holy Spirit, as Catechism section 797 makes clear.
Christ is within us body, blood, soul and divinity through the Sacraments, effected by the power of the Holy Spirit, (CCC 1084) and as God Christ is consubstantial with the whole Godhead, but His human body is united to only the personhood of the Son of God: "Thus the Church confesses, following the New Testament, 'one God and Father from whom all things are, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and one Holy Spirit in whom all things are.' [Council of Constantinople] It is above all the divine missions of the Son’s Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit that show forth the properties of the divine persons." (CCC 258) Although God may work outside the Sacraments, as with Cornelius or the man crucified with Christ, the Sacraments are the ordinary means of receiving His sanctifying grace and divine life.
I hope my explanation is helpful for you. Thank you for the discussion. God bless.
We have the sacraments, but the explanation of the faith behind the sacraments is often lacking. I found this to be true when I was growing up. I didn’t receive the full impact of the sacraments back then. They were only outward rituals for me without experiencing any discernible grace. I believe that this is the case with most Catholics, then and now. Apparently, what Peter preached at the house of Cornelius was enough for them to experience the Holy Spirit even prior to Baptism. I believe that the Church would be better served by paying more attention to the role of Holy Spirit and walking in the Spirit than what it now emphasizes.
Christ was the Word prior to the incarnation. My understanding is that the Son of God includes both the humanity and divinity (Word) of Christ. The Word could not be called God’s Son in the literal sense until the Word was incarnated. This probably means that the Trinity now includes a human component that it did not have prior to the incarnation. I don’t know if this fits in with the decisions of the councils. CCC 797 seems to be saying what Colossians 2:19 says. With the Father also in Jesus, the entire Godhead resides in the Son even though the human body of the Son is united to only the personhood of the Son of God. Jesus is God apart from the presence of the Father and the Holy Spirit within Him, and we are not even though we have Christ within us because our union or oneness is not hypostatic.
The Holy Spirit that Our Lord promised would contain His Spirit (cf. John 14:18). The incarnate Christ could only be imparted at Pentecost because He had not died and ascended at that point. I don’t see how any impartation of the Holy Spirit prior to Pentecost could have included the incarnate Christ. This is probably why there was no full salvation possible before Pentecost, because the results of the Redemption could only be realized by us when Christ is within us. Our profound interior life requires us to walk in the Spirit in order for us to benefit from the graces of the Spirit (cf. Galatians 5:16-25).
Would you mind my asking if you are Catholic?
I am a cradle Catholic with K thru 16 Catholic schooling. I experienced my spirituality when I was 31 years old by following the instructions in Scripture. Because of this, I pay lots of attention to what is in Scripture.
Thank you! In response to your original post, could you explain what you mean that the Holy Spirit "contains His Spirit"? I think I understand the rest of your post; the necessity of Pentecost for salvation is one reason why the Church considers it to be the birth of the Church, since Christ is imparted through the power of the Holy Spirit by the Sacraments.
I believe that the Pentecost Holy Spirit contains the entire Godhead. The Spirit of Christ is presented as separate from the Spirit of God in Romans 8:9. Christ is now within us by His Spirit, and He contains the fullness of the Godhead in His human body (cf. Colossians 2:19). This is the best that I can do with the configuration of the Pentecost Holy Spirit.
Faith presupposes the sacraments (cf. Vatican II’s Sacrosanctum Concilium 59). The Holy Spirit was received by those in the household of Cornelius by faith before they were water baptized (cf. Acts 10:44-48; 15:8-9; 11:17). God overrides human intervention when humans get in His way.
We have to be very careful and precise with language, especially pertaining to the Trinity and the hypostatic union. As always, the Tradition and Magisterium of the Church can help clarify these doctrines. Lumen Gentium of Vatican II clarifies that, although all three persons of the Trinity are truly God, Pentecost specifically involved the coming of the Holy Spirit: “When the work which the Father gave the Son to do on earth was accomplished, the Holy Spirit was sent on the day of Pentecost in order that he might continually sanctify the Church.” The Spirit of Christ, according to the varied usages of Scriptural language, is the Holy Spirit, as Catechism section 797 makes clear.
Christ is within us body, blood, soul and divinity through the Sacraments, effected by the power of the Holy Spirit, (CCC 1084) and as God Christ is consubstantial with the whole Godhead, but His human body is united to only the personhood of the Son of God: "Thus the Church confesses, following the New Testament, 'one God and Father from whom all things are, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and one Holy Spirit in whom all things are.' [Council of Constantinople] It is above all the divine missions of the Son’s Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit that show forth the properties of the divine persons." (CCC 258) Although God may work outside the Sacraments, as with Cornelius or the man crucified with Christ, the Sacraments are the ordinary means of receiving His sanctifying grace and divine life.
I hope my explanation is helpful for you. Thank you for the discussion. God bless.
We have the sacraments, but the explanation of the faith behind the sacraments is often lacking. I found this to be true when I was growing up. I didn’t receive the full impact of the sacraments back then. They were only outward rituals for me without experiencing any discernible grace. I believe that this is the case with most Catholics, then and now. Apparently, what Peter preached at the house of Cornelius was enough for them to experience the Holy Spirit even prior to Baptism. I believe that the Church would be better served by paying more attention to the role of Holy Spirit and walking in the Spirit than what it now emphasizes.
Christ was the Word prior to the incarnation. My understanding is that the Son of God includes both the humanity and divinity (Word) of Christ. The Word could not be called God’s Son in the literal sense until the Word was incarnated. This probably means that the Trinity now includes a human component that it did not have prior to the incarnation. I don’t know if this fits in with the decisions of the councils. CCC 797 seems to be saying what Colossians 2:19 says. With the Father also in Jesus, the entire Godhead resides in the Son even though the human body of the Son is united to only the personhood of the Son of God. Jesus is God apart from the presence of the Father and the Holy Spirit within Him, and we are not even though we have Christ within us because our union or oneness is not hypostatic.