Yes, I agree with you. I hate to suffer, to have problems etc. However, I try to practice what Fr Pavonka, president of the Franciscan University of Steubenville, teaches. Praise and thank God for sufferings, because as St Paul said ,"All things work together for good for those who love God"; because we trust the Lord to take care of us and once "wedded to grace" I am open to learn from and "grow in the knowledge and love of God"!
I too, Father, disagree with your friend's comment. I am sure she meant well and was trying to show emthathy. However, the truth is Jesus had many lesser sorrows, sufferings and problems in His life as we do. His suffering culminated in the greatest suffering and sacrifice of anyone, His crucifixtion and death. But in His life time Jesus experienced all we do and more. It anyone questions this they should read all of Isaiah's suffering servant passages. The Scripture passage that Jesus suffered once and for all does not mean He only suffered one time in His whole life, and all the rest of His life was peaches and cream. It means His final, ultimate suffering completed all He endured to save us!
Francis Bacon had the notion that through science we should recreate the Garden. The reality is, suffering is a medicine, not merely a consequence, of sin. But only when that suffering is wedded to grace.
Suffering happens whether we like it or not: and we need to cooperate with grace when it is happening; but, grace is received apart from suffering; and, suffering is not necessary for grace to remain in us. Peace, joy, and love are fruits of the Spirit. They are not fruits of suffering. We follow Jesus when His Spirit is within us because He can then guide us. Adam and Eve did not suffer prior to the fall; nevertheless, they had a connection with God prior to the fall.
When Christ’s Spirit is within us, we become beneficiaries of His presence which includes the results of His own suffering, death, and resurrection. His Spirit can now enliven us as a result of His redemption. Our entrustment or consecration directly to Him opens us up to His presence which contains all of this. Our consecration can be spiritually labeled as suffering; and, it needs to be maintained even though it is not, of itself, physical suffering. It is in this sense, that we need to be living sacrifices and not be conformed to this world (cf. Romans 12:1-2). There is no need to hope for or self-inflict more physical suffering than we already have.
At times, I don’t know if I’m disagreeing or not. I present my understanding of the matter; and then, if there is disagreement, I will usually get feedback. The apostolic letter was lengthy, so I presented my understanding of the place of physical suffering. I don’t know if it is in total agreement with the letter. There have been teachings on suffering in Catholic spirituality that have led to self-flagellation, which I believe to be a misunderstanding of the place of suffering.
Yes, I agree with you. I hate to suffer, to have problems etc. However, I try to practice what Fr Pavonka, president of the Franciscan University of Steubenville, teaches. Praise and thank God for sufferings, because as St Paul said ,"All things work together for good for those who love God"; because we trust the Lord to take care of us and once "wedded to grace" I am open to learn from and "grow in the knowledge and love of God"!
I too, Father, disagree with your friend's comment. I am sure she meant well and was trying to show emthathy. However, the truth is Jesus had many lesser sorrows, sufferings and problems in His life as we do. His suffering culminated in the greatest suffering and sacrifice of anyone, His crucifixtion and death. But in His life time Jesus experienced all we do and more. It anyone questions this they should read all of Isaiah's suffering servant passages. The Scripture passage that Jesus suffered once and for all does not mean He only suffered one time in His whole life, and all the rest of His life was peaches and cream. It means His final, ultimate suffering completed all He endured to save us!
Francis Bacon had the notion that through science we should recreate the Garden. The reality is, suffering is a medicine, not merely a consequence, of sin. But only when that suffering is wedded to grace.
Suffering happens whether we like it or not: and we need to cooperate with grace when it is happening; but, grace is received apart from suffering; and, suffering is not necessary for grace to remain in us. Peace, joy, and love are fruits of the Spirit. They are not fruits of suffering. We follow Jesus when His Spirit is within us because He can then guide us. Adam and Eve did not suffer prior to the fall; nevertheless, they had a connection with God prior to the fall.
https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_letters/1984/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_11021984_salvifici-doloris.html
When Christ’s Spirit is within us, we become beneficiaries of His presence which includes the results of His own suffering, death, and resurrection. His Spirit can now enliven us as a result of His redemption. Our entrustment or consecration directly to Him opens us up to His presence which contains all of this. Our consecration can be spiritually labeled as suffering; and, it needs to be maintained even though it is not, of itself, physical suffering. It is in this sense, that we need to be living sacrifices and not be conformed to this world (cf. Romans 12:1-2). There is no need to hope for or self-inflict more physical suffering than we already have.
Hi Peter, I notice that you regularly make comments on my particular posts that seem to imply disagreement.
At times, I don’t know if I’m disagreeing or not. I present my understanding of the matter; and then, if there is disagreement, I will usually get feedback. The apostolic letter was lengthy, so I presented my understanding of the place of physical suffering. I don’t know if it is in total agreement with the letter. There have been teachings on suffering in Catholic spirituality that have led to self-flagellation, which I believe to be a misunderstanding of the place of suffering.