Jenny! You're on fire with these articles! I love seeing another woman write like this, so straightforward in defense of the truth. Yes, authentic Christian prayer should always center on Christ, not on nothingness — that's a strange and spiritually dangerous idea. When we need a mental rest and don't want to focus on anything, we should go to Eucharistic adoration (if that isn't immediately possible, there are adoration live-streams — once I found simply imagining the consecrated host in front of me was helpful!) or else take a nap! Keep calling out the heresies going around!
You're absolutely right, Rachel -- and thank you! I actually just wrote an article on live-stream Eucharistic Adoration. Praying with Christ, focusing on Him, is what brings us true peace. God bless!
Oct 26, 2022Liked by Jenny duBay, Rachel Cecilia Stella
Thoroughly hammered. Panentheism is the catchword for the slippery gravel which pitches us off the cliff. Such morphing of God into dusty oblivion has several similar proponents losing their grip on the Trinity.
I just finished writing "A Snarl Theology," the underpinning theology for considering God and our relationship to the animal kingdom. The discussion highlights the animal kingdom housed in the Ark and Peter's command to eat from all the animals on a dropped sheet. I attend to God's tumultuous and historical confirmation of our bond with creatures.
I aggressively distanced myself from the panentheists, and the more obvious heresy of pantheism. It's a tricky subject, animals in heaven. All kinds of rabbit holes! Genesis places them in the heavenly realm of Paradise, and in other imaged scenes throughout scripture. But it's not a settled theology, and codified.
Thank you for confirming my desire to hold off on the sketchy, misdirected teachings of Keating, and even Delia and Rohr.
Though they were well-intentioned the American Trappists went off the rails a bit in the second half of the XX century.
One of the problems I see with centering prayer and other eastern practices is that they rely solely on the effort of the individual whereas authentic Christian prayer relies on God who both inspires us and gives us the grace to pray. God is the beginning and end (telos) of our prayer, we are willing participants. Without God and His grace we can do nothing. Thus centering prayer is also an exercise in futility.
This is beautifully worded! You're absolutely correct. Exposing this difference is crucial in helping others understand the errors of this practice. Thank you!
The expanded use of the word ‘prayer’ is a problem, and can be misleading. Prayer is usually used for petitioning God. Spiritual practices and exercises should be labeled separately. When the word ‘prayer’ is applied to them, those who are not informed may believe that the questionable spiritual practice is an essential part of prayer.
I agree, the use of "prayer" is a misleading problem. Petitionary prayer is just one aspect of true Christian prayer (see CCC 2558-2865). In addition to petitioning God, true Christian prayer is also blessing and adoration, intercession, and praise. Prayer is not a void, as you so well pointed out when you noted that such "questionable spiritual practices" as Centering 'Prayer' shouldn't ever be considered an aspect of authentic Christian devotion. Thanks so much for your great observation, Peter!
Peter makes a good observation here on prayer has shown in Sacred Scripture.
Sacred Scripture nuances prayers from the faithful as intercessory with incense--see Ps. 141z And in fact, the example of typical prayer used throughout the Bible is often intercessory in nature using a detailed analysis: And this is how Bible scholars know that Rev. 5:8, 5:13, & 7:10. indicate this type of intercessory usage from the Saints in heaven.
Jason, you're in my prayers! Have you sought the blessed Sacrament of Reconciliation and spoken with your priest? Spiritual direction with an orthodox and qualified Catholic spiritual director is extremely beneficial and such a blessing. My spiritual director is also the priest in my parish. Perhaps you could ask yours about direction, if you feel comfortable with him?
Thank you...why is Richard Rohr so popular??? I'm in my mid 40s and I came from a very dysfunctional family background and I'm on the autism spectrum but highly functional...Ive been tempted to leave the Catholic Church and just be spiritual but not religious....
I left the Catholic Church to be "spiritual but not religious" and it became the darkest period of my life. That wasn't what I intended--I thought I had good intentions -- but leaving the truth to follow the false was a bad mistake. Rohr is also false, so I believe he's popular because it's a temptation away from the Truth, and the Satan is always trying to tempt us away from Jesus, under the guise of goodness (darkness disguised as light). Once we open the door to darkness, however unintentional ... bad things happen. You can read more about my journey as I went astray, and came back to the Church, at:
I also highly recommend that you contact the founder of Missio Dei, Phillip Hadden (https://substack.com/@missiodei). He's been doing tons of research on Richard Rohr and I think he can really help you. If you're not sure how to get in touch with him privately, you can send me a message with your contact information. Once I have your permission, and his, I can put the two of you in contact with each other. To reach me, follow this link:
I should not have been surprised that such opinions as your's exist among Catholics. Fr. Keating surely was a special person. There are or were multitudes of "baby boomer" educated in Catholic schools who became discouraged by certain teachings and "rules" that made no sense. Abuse by some priests and by Catholic schools of Indigenous Americans is appalling. Contemporary "conservative" politics also entered Catholic media and community. You are not eager to address immoral personalities inside and outside the Church. God bless Dr. Keating helping some of us Catholics to experience God more deeply in our lives.
I respectfully disagree with the author. Fr Keating is in Heaven and those of us who knew him and loved his teaching and practice remain grateful for his life and his life's work. (Bringing us closer to God and others in prayer during our time here on earth)
Jenny! You're on fire with these articles! I love seeing another woman write like this, so straightforward in defense of the truth. Yes, authentic Christian prayer should always center on Christ, not on nothingness — that's a strange and spiritually dangerous idea. When we need a mental rest and don't want to focus on anything, we should go to Eucharistic adoration (if that isn't immediately possible, there are adoration live-streams — once I found simply imagining the consecrated host in front of me was helpful!) or else take a nap! Keep calling out the heresies going around!
You're absolutely right, Rachel -- and thank you! I actually just wrote an article on live-stream Eucharistic Adoration. Praying with Christ, focusing on Him, is what brings us true peace. God bless!
Thoroughly hammered. Panentheism is the catchword for the slippery gravel which pitches us off the cliff. Such morphing of God into dusty oblivion has several similar proponents losing their grip on the Trinity.
I just finished writing "A Snarl Theology," the underpinning theology for considering God and our relationship to the animal kingdom. The discussion highlights the animal kingdom housed in the Ark and Peter's command to eat from all the animals on a dropped sheet. I attend to God's tumultuous and historical confirmation of our bond with creatures.
I aggressively distanced myself from the panentheists, and the more obvious heresy of pantheism. It's a tricky subject, animals in heaven. All kinds of rabbit holes! Genesis places them in the heavenly realm of Paradise, and in other imaged scenes throughout scripture. But it's not a settled theology, and codified.
Thank you for confirming my desire to hold off on the sketchy, misdirected teachings of Keating, and even Delia and Rohr.
Whew.
Though they were well-intentioned the American Trappists went off the rails a bit in the second half of the XX century.
One of the problems I see with centering prayer and other eastern practices is that they rely solely on the effort of the individual whereas authentic Christian prayer relies on God who both inspires us and gives us the grace to pray. God is the beginning and end (telos) of our prayer, we are willing participants. Without God and His grace we can do nothing. Thus centering prayer is also an exercise in futility.
Just some thoughts from a fellow pilgrim.
This is beautifully worded! You're absolutely correct. Exposing this difference is crucial in helping others understand the errors of this practice. Thank you!
Good article, Jenny. Thanks for mentioning my book. Keep up the good work!
Thank you Connie, I'm truly honored that you read and enjoyed my article! I really appreciate all the great work you've done in this area.
The expanded use of the word ‘prayer’ is a problem, and can be misleading. Prayer is usually used for petitioning God. Spiritual practices and exercises should be labeled separately. When the word ‘prayer’ is applied to them, those who are not informed may believe that the questionable spiritual practice is an essential part of prayer.
I agree, the use of "prayer" is a misleading problem. Petitionary prayer is just one aspect of true Christian prayer (see CCC 2558-2865). In addition to petitioning God, true Christian prayer is also blessing and adoration, intercession, and praise. Prayer is not a void, as you so well pointed out when you noted that such "questionable spiritual practices" as Centering 'Prayer' shouldn't ever be considered an aspect of authentic Christian devotion. Thanks so much for your great observation, Peter!
Peter makes a good observation here on prayer has shown in Sacred Scripture.
Sacred Scripture nuances prayers from the faithful as intercessory with incense--see Ps. 141z And in fact, the example of typical prayer used throughout the Bible is often intercessory in nature using a detailed analysis: And this is how Bible scholars know that Rev. 5:8, 5:13, & 7:10. indicate this type of intercessory usage from the Saints in heaven.
Bravo, this has long needed to be said!! Thank you!!!!!!
I appreciate your comment so much, thank you!
Please pray for me Jason.
I'm a convert to the Catholic Church but I got led astray and duped by Richard Rohr and Thomas Keating..now I'm not sure what to do ....
Jason, you're in my prayers! Have you sought the blessed Sacrament of Reconciliation and spoken with your priest? Spiritual direction with an orthodox and qualified Catholic spiritual director is extremely beneficial and such a blessing. My spiritual director is also the priest in my parish. Perhaps you could ask yours about direction, if you feel comfortable with him?
Thank you...why is Richard Rohr so popular??? I'm in my mid 40s and I came from a very dysfunctional family background and I'm on the autism spectrum but highly functional...Ive been tempted to leave the Catholic Church and just be spiritual but not religious....
I left the Catholic Church to be "spiritual but not religious" and it became the darkest period of my life. That wasn't what I intended--I thought I had good intentions -- but leaving the truth to follow the false was a bad mistake. Rohr is also false, so I believe he's popular because it's a temptation away from the Truth, and the Satan is always trying to tempt us away from Jesus, under the guise of goodness (darkness disguised as light). Once we open the door to darkness, however unintentional ... bad things happen. You can read more about my journey as I went astray, and came back to the Church, at:
https://www.prodigalparishioner.com/p/forgiveness-after-betrayal
https://www.prodigalparishioner.com/p/revert-and-convert-to-catholicism
and
https://www.missiodeicatholic.org/p/why-catholics-should-not-practice-yoga
I also highly recommend that you contact the founder of Missio Dei, Phillip Hadden (https://substack.com/@missiodei). He's been doing tons of research on Richard Rohr and I think he can really help you. If you're not sure how to get in touch with him privately, you can send me a message with your contact information. Once I have your permission, and his, I can put the two of you in contact with each other. To reach me, follow this link:
https://www.jennydubay.com/contact.html
I should not have been surprised that such opinions as your's exist among Catholics. Fr. Keating surely was a special person. There are or were multitudes of "baby boomer" educated in Catholic schools who became discouraged by certain teachings and "rules" that made no sense. Abuse by some priests and by Catholic schools of Indigenous Americans is appalling. Contemporary "conservative" politics also entered Catholic media and community. You are not eager to address immoral personalities inside and outside the Church. God bless Dr. Keating helping some of us Catholics to experience God more deeply in our lives.
I respectfully disagree with the author. Fr Keating is in Heaven and those of us who knew him and loved his teaching and practice remain grateful for his life and his life's work. (Bringing us closer to God and others in prayer during our time here on earth)