Peter told his Jewish listeners to get baptized. This means covert to Christ. For whatever reason I selected just this one scripture verse.
I believe that today there is a tendency to change the hard truth about what the Church has always taught when it comes to “How can we be saved?”, especially when it pertains to Jews. Does dual covenant theology excuse Jews from killing Christ? If so then since this killing was prophesied does that remove the sin? It had to be done for the sake of redemption? What about continuing rebellion against Christ, who brought a new covenant that, it seems plain and clear, superseded the Old Covenant.
I just read in St Augustine’s The City of God where he wrote about the OT stories concerning brothers in Genesis. I used to read those stories and didn’t understand there was any meaning to them. But Augustine creates an interpretation that juxtaposes older versus younger. The older brothers tend to be despicable: Cain, Ishmael (not despicable but cast aside), Esau, and Joseph’s older brothers who sold him as a slave; while the younger brothers were the favored ones—Abel, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph. As an example, older brother Cain (the Jews) killed younger brother Abel (Christ). Augustine believes that the older brother represent the old covenant, and the younger brother represent the new covenant or the Church, the younger brothers are favored by God.
A Jewish man on Facebook stated that he does not accept Jesus. He asks if Jews who perished in German concentration camps, Ann Frank specifically, will suffer twice—both in her temporal existence and in eternity.
I just finished taking a break from reading “Prophecy, the Jews, and the Antichrist Part II before reading this daily reflection. I don’t know how to answer the Ann Frank question.
In Christian theology, Covenant theology falls largely into two camps: discontinuity & continuity. I fall into the camp of continuity.
Now, the problem with Augustine’s view, as you’ve described, is there are plenty of example of first born sons being exemplary like Abraham & Isaac. Some historical Jewish sources speculate that Melchizedek is the first born son of Noah—Shem. Aaron is the first born son to Moses; the younger brother & Aaron is made the priest.
Furthermore, blame on the Jewish people on the death of Christ is problematic because biblically in John’s gospel the context of “The Jews” is clearly the Jewish leadership as other actors in the text are also Jewish. Furthermore, the Patristics like John Chrysostom has a text called “Against the Jews” challenging the Judaism within Christian camps & outside influences, He does write some vile things, but this has to be read in its historical context because during the period Jews were proselytizing Christians & Chrysostom was reacting against such activities in the context.
When it comes to guilt? Peter was a Jew. So, was Paul & others, so again, it’s important to read in John’s gospel & Acts the context of the text.
Who killed Jesus? Anyone who sins.
Now regarding salvation of the Jews within the mediation of Christ, I talk about this in the Eucharistic Revival Project w/ Benjamin Merkle’s work, “there is no consistent interpretation of Romans 11:26 offered by covenant theologians. The identity of “Israel” in Paul’s phrase, “And in this way all Israel will be saved,” is understood to refer to (1) the church, (2) the elect among ethnic Israel throughout history, or (3) a future mass conversion of ethnic Israel.”
And this why I concluded it remains a mystery and debated throughout the history of Christianity.
It would seem logical that a loving God who chose the Jews—but then these Jews continually reject His covenants but want to keep their chosen status—would desire their salvation. But I doubt that the same loving God is going to let His “first chosen” off the hook until they relent. The thing that bothers me about this is it isn’t a Magisterial document and worse, it is a product of Catholic-Jewish dialogue. Please note that the recent joint document titled Translate Hate by the American Jewish Committee and the US Catholic Conference of Bishops, is an attack under the guise of antisemitism on any Catholic who chooses to criticize Jewish behavior.
Now, Sungenis aptly notes in the above linked article that in 1962, David Ben-Gurion talked about a world government seated in Jerusalem promising perpetual peace. But can we trust the Jews who are killing all of their neighbors to establish greater Israel, not to mention the Palestinians? Are we being naive? Quoting Sungenis, “As we have seen many times, here David ben Gurion shows another instance of Marcionism, that is, separating the Old Testament from the New Testament, so that the latter cannot interpret the former.”
These Jews practice deception while engaging in dialogue.
Catholics are not automatically saved because of Original Sin. Same thing for everyone else. But if history ends only when the Jews convert, this gifted and chosen (though paused) people, are the determining factor. I’m speculating here.
I think so because I believe it comes down to the 3 options presented by Merkle. How will it play out? I mentioned in the above reflection, for me, it remains a mystery. Jews will be saved, it’s in Sacred Scripture in Romans, but none of us are given any other details. We do know through the magisterium all salvation comes through Jesus Christ.
A minor point here: Aaron is said to be older brother to Moses, and Ishmael was born of a different mother and Abraham’s first born son.
Regarding “the Jews”: I don’t disagree with your statement. A Jewish political philosophy teacher told me “We Jews represent the best and worst in humanity.” Then and now, the Jews are an enigma for me. As Jones says, criticism of Jews cannot be anti-Semitic because some Jews opposed Jesus’s crucifixion while others demanded it, but since they all had common DNA, the issue isn’t racial, but rather theological.
But we sinners, Jews and Gentiles alike, cannot be said to have literally killed Christ. We offend Christ and rebel against Him with our sins, and if we kill anything it is our eternal souls. The question of salvation is fleshed out through the Church, as you know better than I, in the Catechism.
I knew nothing about the Jewish Question until maybe six years ago and more so during Covid’s arrival where I noticed the disproportionate number of Jews involved in that, and then in the Obama and Biden Administrations. But for every Jew involved in pornography, gay and transgender rights, abortion, and feminism, to name a few areas, there are gentiles who have left their dwelling place in the New Israel, the Church. I “notice” but I wonder if God doesn’t want our speaking the truth about what we have noticed. Like it’s up to him to speak with vengeance against the destruction of justice in our times. I’m not going to be a spokesman as I am not equipped. But I want to know the truth, and the more I research, the more I see the Jew-Church tension in all of scripture. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
PS, I don’t see a problem with Pope Francis’s statement on the matter. But I have noticed the reluctance by many to stick to Tradition “for fear of the Jews.”
Yes, and of course, I meant in comparison to Moses w/ Aaron. I think regarding Isaac though I’d argue within the union, but you may have a valid point there regarding Ishmael.
I will say it is a theological question, but it has to do more so with the effects of Original Sin & disobedience universally to humanity. Jesus’ sacrifice is fitting but it is a debt that goes back to Genesis that God cannot go back on His word as Athanasius puts it, I debt that all men inherited as understood by the Catholic Church via Augustine, Aquinas, etc. If not then it would be unjust to be damned to hell for the fall of man & we wouldn’t be made righteous for it without the sacrificial victim being offered for our collective guilt.
Acts 2:36-42.
Peter told his Jewish listeners to get baptized. This means covert to Christ. For whatever reason I selected just this one scripture verse.
I believe that today there is a tendency to change the hard truth about what the Church has always taught when it comes to “How can we be saved?”, especially when it pertains to Jews. Does dual covenant theology excuse Jews from killing Christ? If so then since this killing was prophesied does that remove the sin? It had to be done for the sake of redemption? What about continuing rebellion against Christ, who brought a new covenant that, it seems plain and clear, superseded the Old Covenant.
I just read in St Augustine’s The City of God where he wrote about the OT stories concerning brothers in Genesis. I used to read those stories and didn’t understand there was any meaning to them. But Augustine creates an interpretation that juxtaposes older versus younger. The older brothers tend to be despicable: Cain, Ishmael (not despicable but cast aside), Esau, and Joseph’s older brothers who sold him as a slave; while the younger brothers were the favored ones—Abel, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph. As an example, older brother Cain (the Jews) killed younger brother Abel (Christ). Augustine believes that the older brother represent the old covenant, and the younger brother represent the new covenant or the Church, the younger brothers are favored by God.
A Jewish man on Facebook stated that he does not accept Jesus. He asks if Jews who perished in German concentration camps, Ann Frank specifically, will suffer twice—both in her temporal existence and in eternity.
I just finished taking a break from reading “Prophecy, the Jews, and the Antichrist Part II before reading this daily reflection. I don’t know how to answer the Ann Frank question.
https://culturewars.com/news/prophecy-the-jews-and-the-antichrist-ii
All of this material is new to me.
In Christian theology, Covenant theology falls largely into two camps: discontinuity & continuity. I fall into the camp of continuity.
Now, the problem with Augustine’s view, as you’ve described, is there are plenty of example of first born sons being exemplary like Abraham & Isaac. Some historical Jewish sources speculate that Melchizedek is the first born son of Noah—Shem. Aaron is the first born son to Moses; the younger brother & Aaron is made the priest.
Furthermore, blame on the Jewish people on the death of Christ is problematic because biblically in John’s gospel the context of “The Jews” is clearly the Jewish leadership as other actors in the text are also Jewish. Furthermore, the Patristics like John Chrysostom has a text called “Against the Jews” challenging the Judaism within Christian camps & outside influences, He does write some vile things, but this has to be read in its historical context because during the period Jews were proselytizing Christians & Chrysostom was reacting against such activities in the context.
When it comes to guilt? Peter was a Jew. So, was Paul & others, so again, it’s important to read in John’s gospel & Acts the context of the text.
Who killed Jesus? Anyone who sins.
Now regarding salvation of the Jews within the mediation of Christ, I talk about this in the Eucharistic Revival Project w/ Benjamin Merkle’s work, “there is no consistent interpretation of Romans 11:26 offered by covenant theologians. The identity of “Israel” in Paul’s phrase, “And in this way all Israel will be saved,” is understood to refer to (1) the church, (2) the elect among ethnic Israel throughout history, or (3) a future mass conversion of ethnic Israel.”
And this why I concluded it remains a mystery and debated throughout the history of Christianity.
I’m not sure if the people I read have commented on Romans 11:26 ff. I need to look for that. Where is Merkle’s work?
You can also reference the Vatican document that I linked in the article, it goes into some detail on Romans 11.
https://a.co/d/1jaRB9E
the Amazon link to his book that surveys different covenant theology theories.
It would seem logical that a loving God who chose the Jews—but then these Jews continually reject His covenants but want to keep their chosen status—would desire their salvation. But I doubt that the same loving God is going to let His “first chosen” off the hook until they relent. The thing that bothers me about this is it isn’t a Magisterial document and worse, it is a product of Catholic-Jewish dialogue. Please note that the recent joint document titled Translate Hate by the American Jewish Committee and the US Catholic Conference of Bishops, is an attack under the guise of antisemitism on any Catholic who chooses to criticize Jewish behavior.
Now, Sungenis aptly notes in the above linked article that in 1962, David Ben-Gurion talked about a world government seated in Jerusalem promising perpetual peace. But can we trust the Jews who are killing all of their neighbors to establish greater Israel, not to mention the Palestinians? Are we being naive? Quoting Sungenis, “As we have seen many times, here David ben Gurion shows another instance of Marcionism, that is, separating the Old Testament from the New Testament, so that the latter cannot interpret the former.”
These Jews practice deception while engaging in dialogue.
Catholics are not automatically saved because of Original Sin. Same thing for everyone else. But if history ends only when the Jews convert, this gifted and chosen (though paused) people, are the determining factor. I’m speculating here.
Again, it comes down to the three presented options: Jews within the Church, a small elect at the end times, or a mass conversion.
So are we making too much of the JQ?
I think so because I believe it comes down to the 3 options presented by Merkle. How will it play out? I mentioned in the above reflection, for me, it remains a mystery. Jews will be saved, it’s in Sacred Scripture in Romans, but none of us are given any other details. We do know through the magisterium all salvation comes through Jesus Christ.
A minor point here: Aaron is said to be older brother to Moses, and Ishmael was born of a different mother and Abraham’s first born son.
Regarding “the Jews”: I don’t disagree with your statement. A Jewish political philosophy teacher told me “We Jews represent the best and worst in humanity.” Then and now, the Jews are an enigma for me. As Jones says, criticism of Jews cannot be anti-Semitic because some Jews opposed Jesus’s crucifixion while others demanded it, but since they all had common DNA, the issue isn’t racial, but rather theological.
But we sinners, Jews and Gentiles alike, cannot be said to have literally killed Christ. We offend Christ and rebel against Him with our sins, and if we kill anything it is our eternal souls. The question of salvation is fleshed out through the Church, as you know better than I, in the Catechism.
I knew nothing about the Jewish Question until maybe six years ago and more so during Covid’s arrival where I noticed the disproportionate number of Jews involved in that, and then in the Obama and Biden Administrations. But for every Jew involved in pornography, gay and transgender rights, abortion, and feminism, to name a few areas, there are gentiles who have left their dwelling place in the New Israel, the Church. I “notice” but I wonder if God doesn’t want our speaking the truth about what we have noticed. Like it’s up to him to speak with vengeance against the destruction of justice in our times. I’m not going to be a spokesman as I am not equipped. But I want to know the truth, and the more I research, the more I see the Jew-Church tension in all of scripture. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
PS, I don’t see a problem with Pope Francis’s statement on the matter. But I have noticed the reluctance by many to stick to Tradition “for fear of the Jews.”
Yes, and of course, I meant in comparison to Moses w/ Aaron. I think regarding Isaac though I’d argue within the union, but you may have a valid point there regarding Ishmael.
I will say it is a theological question, but it has to do more so with the effects of Original Sin & disobedience universally to humanity. Jesus’ sacrifice is fitting but it is a debt that goes back to Genesis that God cannot go back on His word as Athanasius puts it, I debt that all men inherited as understood by the Catholic Church via Augustine, Aquinas, etc. If not then it would be unjust to be damned to hell for the fall of man & we wouldn’t be made righteous for it without the sacrificial victim being offered for our collective guilt.
Add “mass migration” to the list of Jewish political involvement above.
Amen!!!!!!